Are Conservative Bloggers as "Hateful" as Liberal Bloggers?
Gayle alerted me to her e-mail being read on Bill O'Reilly (Gayle: Do you recall what else you wrote in your mail?). It was in regards to an apparent segment involving the Daily Kos.
So, being out here on the westcoast, I taped the segment. I did buy a tvcard for my computer, but have not had time to figure out how to install it; so, if it's not obvious, I simply used my digital camera and videoed off of my archaic non-plasmic tv set, to share with fellow blogbuddies of the Dragon Lady:
In general, (IN GENERAL!!!), who is more "gentlemanly", respectful, and "well-behaved" in the blogosphere: The right-wing attack dogs or the left-wing moonbats?
You decide.
Remember: Keep your comments pithy; no bloviating.
As far as foul-language and vitriol goes, I'd give it up to the KosKiddies and their kith and kin. But then, that might just be because I'm unapologetically a partisan center-right pro-war-on-Islamic-terror 9/11 conservative blogger and noncard-carrying member of the vast right-wing conspiracy.
Also, on related posts:
Burkean Reflections
Daily Kos
Dean Barnett
Hugh Hewitt
Freedom Eden
Newsbusters
Skye Puppy
The Oxford Medievalist
Labels: blogosphere, KosKiddies, YouTube
posted by The WordSmith from Nantucket at 8/14/2007 03:05:00 AM
93 Comments:
I watch and listen to O'Reilly while getting ready for work. I lik when he reads the letters, some of them are pretty funny. That's so cool that Gayle got her letter read. Congrats Gayle.
As far as the Daily Kooks are concerned. I've been going over there reading that blog for a long time. I don't go over there much anymore because it is nothing but hatefilled cynicism. The worst thing about about that whole blog is there is no intelligent life forms there. The level of dicussion is fairly low, much lower than I care to deal with on a regular basis.
I do however go there to see how the kooks react to certain events as if there reactions aren't already as predictable as having to pee soon after drinking a gallon of water. It usually doesn't take long to confirm what I already expected.
You are so sweet, Wordsmith. I put a personal note on my latest post so those who want to watch it can come here. I was shocked that he actually read it. :)
Just like JG, I cannot read the Daily Kos. I went there a few times quite some time ago and couldn't take it. The vile rhetoric is unbelievable!
Thanks again. You are so cool. :)
Oops! You asked what else I wrote in the e-mail. I can't give you it word for word, as I didn't save the letter. To be honest I didn't expect him to air it. But I remember writing about the fact that I can't even visit the Daily KOS because of the vitriol posted there. It gives me heartburn! :) That's the part of the e-mail I would have liked him to have read.
By far conservative bloggers are more respectful than liberal boggers.
Like O'Reilly said, (BTW Way to go Gayle), there are some conservatives who use attack speech etc. but as a whole they write true thoughful opinions and not resorting to just name calling and hate speech.
I had an attack once from Democrat Underground .com concerning a poll I had posted. They flooded my site with obscene comments with some calling for violent response to anyone who diagreed with the liberal ideas.
Problem is that this is typical in their comments and their writings on the web. Yes there are some who are curtious and engage in an intelligent discourse.
I have some, one in particular who spark a good thread in the comments. You've combated Rob several times my friend and it is always cordial.
I have also found that most liberals comment either anonymously or do not have a blog site of their own in which we can engage in their , "brilliant," ramblings.
Wordsmith, hands down, the left is just plain mean - when they have no issue they attack the person. I don't think conservative bloggers can be that mean, they have manners after all - that is part of what makes them "conservatives." James and Paul, attack dogs - good grief! No manners and no class at all.
I wonder how the "hate speech" laws would impact our lovable leftist bloggers???? :)
The left is much nastier than the right. It's a big a non secret as Area 51 was back in the 80's and early 90's. Everyone knew it existed and yet it didn't...
What surprised me, Wordsmith, is that it was even brought up on O'Reilly as a topic of discussion. I thought everyone knew the left was more rude than the right.
O'Reilly despises bloggers. That might explain some of his negativity in that segment.
"Gayle said...I thought everyone knew the left was more rude than the right."
Ha Gayle we think as alike as our names are. My first thought was a big duh,no question there. And i so agree on the name calling when there is not a valid argument.
I don't watch Bill O'Reilly. I've seen him before and heard his radio show. *meh*
That being said I'm happy to hear him reply to "one of our own". And he wasn't snarky about it either. Congratulations to Gayle!
And thanks, Wordsmith, for doing all that to post this. Nice job!
And to O'Reilly: The Lefties are among the most venal, nasty, clueless creatures to infest the blogosphere. Thier diatribes are foul, filthy, and fact-free as they attempt to deride conservatives as "mean-spirited" Nazis, while showcasing thier own version of centrist, "caring" thought. No contest, really.
LOL Benning! If I had written that I'll just betcha O'Reilly wouldn't have published it. Or, if he had published it he would have said my e-mail was sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. However, what you said is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth! :)
I'm going to post your YouTube clip.
"By far conservative bloggers are more respectful than liberal boggers."
I must not go to the correct "liberal" blogs because by far, in my experience, the "conservative" bloggers I run across are the mean-spirited and disrespectful ones.
Having said that, of the places I go, both Conservative and Liberal bloggers are mostly polite. But of the nasty/mean bloggers that I've encountered, they are 10:1 "conservative" to "liberal."
I've never seen a liberal issue a death threat or call to violence (that being against the very nature of what liberals stand for). I have seen them with conservatives.
In my experience.
"Thier diatribes are foul, filthy, and fact-free"
Does anyone have an example of this sort of behavior amongst so-called liberals?
As those of you who have seen my comments know, I'm a pretty polite person. Notwithstanding that, I've been called 'communist,' 'traitor,' 'not a Christian,' (I'm a church-going Christian, Sunday school teacher and deacon), 'coward,' 'wimp,' 'terrorist-lover,' etc, etc, etc (and those are only the names printable in mixed company).
I've had it suggested that I ought to be in prison, ought to leave the country or ought to be killed. From "Conservatives."
Of course, since they tend to agree with me, I'm not surprised that "liberals" don't call me names, but I've not seen liberals resort to such behavior except on rare occasions and not to the degree that I've seen with conservatives.
So, an example would be helpful.
Congrats Gayle,
I heard that letter and thought about you when I heard it and now I know it was you lol.
Great Letter :-)
Thank you, Marie.
Dan, I haven't responded to a comment of yours in ages because I did ask you to remove yourself from my blog. You are not the average liberal that visits most of our blogs. You were always polite, you just drove me nuts! Your tendency to beat a dead horse beyond the point of death totally annoyed me, but you were never rude and I do give you credit for that.
Vile, filthy language has been used by liberals on my blog to the point I turned comment moderation on and will leave it on for that reason. I've even had people come in pretending to be conservative and linking to pornography! There is no contest as to who is more rude on the internet. The liberals have the honor lock, stock and barrel.
That is, of course, your opinion, Miss Gayle. Just as my opinion - the reality in the blogs that I read - is exactly opposite. Both are based upon anectdotal evidence and so we can't really prove it.
But to be fair, it would be most honest to say, "In my experience, these bloggers tend to be more polite," as opposed to, "It's definitely liberals!" (Or "definitely conservatives!") since we have no objective evidence one way or the other (or at least as far as I am aware - anyone able to cite a source?)
This statement smacks of intellectual laziness or willful ignorance.
Which one is it Dan?
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Does anyone have an example of this sort of behavior amongst so-called liberals?
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Protein Wisdom
Michelle Malkin
Amanda Marcotte
Amanda part 2
Kos
"This statement smacks of intellectual laziness or willful ignorance.
Which one is it Dan?"
Actually it's neither, Miss Skye. A posit was made with no backing support, just a blanket suggestion as a given that liberal bloggers are more hateful than conservative bloggers. When one makes an accusation such as this, the burden is on the accuser to support their statement if they wish to sway the folk to whom they're talking.
For instance, consider this statement: "Conservative men beat their wives at a vastly greater rate than liberal men do."
Oh really? Says who? Why should I believe that blanket statement with no supporting evidence.
Generally, when folk make accusations, the burden is on them to support it.
So, it's not intellectual laziness to ask a claimant for support for their statement. Rather, it's intellectual laziness to offer such an accusation with no support.
(And that's not meant to be an affront. Sometimes we just want to rant amongst friends who agree and these comments have that feel and I very much understand that. But along comes someone who questions the premise and asks for supporting evidence and that's fair.)
Nor is it willful ignorance. Go to my blog. I've a list of folk I often agree with (that many would consider liberal), as well as some I disagree with ("conservative"). Go to any of those liberal pages and you will not see name-calling, hateful attitudes or mean-spiritedness. I'm saying as a matter of reality that the so-called liberal blogs I frequent do not match the description offered here.
And so, I asked for some support.
You gave me links to a few pages. I went to them and saw a great amount of writing but in five minutes of rambling around, did not find the first clear "liberal" hateful speech.
So, perhaps you could lift a quote (with some context) so I could know what you're speaking of. Or, link directly to a specific series of quotes that you find hateful.
But let's assume you find a series of quotes that are, indeed, hateful. I'm sure they're out there. Just as there are hateful conservative blogs out there.
The question John asked was "Are conservative bloggers as hateful as liberal bloggers?" (A slanted question, by the way).
We have no real way of "proving" this one way or the other, unless someone is aware of a study that might help.
I'd suggest that, in my experience, there are hateful conservatives and liberals out there. I've seen many more conservatives being hateful than I have liberals. BUT, I'd hazard to guess that it's likely about the same, were a fair measurement done.
Peace.
Skye, Dan Trabue's last comment smells of intellectual arrogance. It deploys typical liberal linguistic devices and attempts to split rhetorical hairs.
We don't need a PhD in rhetoric to identify hate speech in the blogosphere. We all know from the way Wordsmith framed the question that all liberal bloggers are "hateful".
Congratulations Gayle!
I try to purposely bloviate (for obvious reasons) and proliferate multisyllabic obsequious words -- but occasionally let fly with some terse F, S and other applicable letter combinations when my capability to tolerate the brazen lack of common sense on the part of the Left is challenged and its threshold exceeded. I try to limit these thrashings but find myself on the bitter edge of decency many times and, further, have written many an inappropriate screed only to clear it completely and let it waft into the digital air. I have also, on rare occasion, published a post that, upon overnight rumination, I took down the next morning.
BZ
Additionally, Always On Watch is correct: O'Reilly dislikes bloggers as he believes they have the ability to write what they wish and, in his past, he has had some negative dealings with them. Despite that, I am STILL and shall ALWAYS be about carrying the sword and flag for FREE SPEECH -- ACTUAL free speech in terms of the written and spoken word.
BZ
"Dan Trabue's last comment smells of intellectual arrogance. It deploys typical liberal linguistic devices and attempts to split rhetorical hairs."
I could note that I came merely asking a question for clarification purposes and to suggest that fairness would require some middle ground, while those who've responded to me have done so by suggesting I'm arrogant, lazy and/or ignorant (and Miss Gayle, who called me polite if annoying - thanks!)
In fairness I ask: Who's being mean-spirited in just this little exchange of ideas?
Annoying whiny socialist defeatists like Trabue obviously don't know the difference between hate speech and vehement disagreement.
That poor weanie!
P.S. Word: How difficult can it be to pop in the TV card? It shoud install itself.
And peace right back to you, brother Mike. Thanks for helping to undermine the main point of this post.
Congrats, Gayle!
Short answer to Wordsmith's question: Yes, I think liberals are far more hateful--no holds barred, devil may care, in your face, vulgar and intolerant--than conservative bloggers. Just look at liberals when they have "melt down" public experiences... a la... Rosie O, M. Baldwin, Chris Rock. There's nothing worse than empty spew--it's sort of like "the dry heaves," and that seems to be what happens when they speak their mind.
You just proved you haven't got a clue Trabue.
If you think that's hate speech you're dumber than a post.
Anytime you want to see REAL hate speech I'd be glad to go over to Daily Kos and dig up some filth for you.
You'll do anything to justify the haters of the left won't you?
First, congrats to Gayle!
Think of all the e-mail that O'Reilly gets. Very cool!
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Of course, there are mean-spirited conservatives. Being a jerk transcends political affiliation.
But generally speaking, the ugliness from the Left is far more prevalent and intense than that coming from the Right.
Dan offers a list of names that have been tossed at him.
I can easily outdo those. Besides being called the most hateful and demeaning names, I've had some really creepy physical threats from liberals.
That's pathological, not discourse.
Wordsmith's original question:
In general, (IN GENERAL!!!), who is more "gentlemanly", respectful, and "well-behaved" in the blogosphere: The right-wing attack dogs or the left-wing moonbats?
Again, despite Mike's protestations, the only ones who've engaged in name-calling and derision in this post have been (a few) "conservatives." That, to me, is ungentlemanly (or un-ladylike), disrespectful and ill-behaved.
If you all think differently, then what exactly are you talking about when you say "liberals" are not gentlemanly, respectful or well-behaved. Do you mean that, when someone disagrees with you, then they are obviously not those things? Of course not. We're all adults here and know that disagreement does not make one bad.
So, if THIS particular post was any indicator, I'd suggest we have 3:0 "conservatives" being disrespectful to "liberals."
Mary, I'm sorry that you or I or anyone gets called names. It's really a sad commentary on the nature of discourse. Usually, I would hope such behavior is only coming from the young or the slow-witted, but I know that's not the case.
But again, the fact that you or I have been called names is not in and of itself "proof" that liberals or conservatives are the main criminals here. We just don't know.
As to threats, here's one I recall (I realize he wasn't making a real threat, but then hardly anyone is making a real threat on the internet):
Mike from Mike's America said:
"Ride your bike if you want. Just make sure you're not in the way of my SUV... I don't brake for SOCIALISTS!" [source]
Mike also said:
Anytime you want to see REAL hate speech I'd be glad to go over to Daily Kos and dig up some filth for you.
Well, that WAS the original polite request that generated the name-calling and other disrespectful behavior.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dan the liberal said...Again, despite Mike's protestations, the only ones who've engaged in name-calling and derision in this post have been (a few) "conservatives." That, to me, is ungentlemanly (or un-ladylike), disrespectful and ill-behaved.
I'm not above calling a spade a spade dan. If you piss people off then you deserve to be insulted that's the nature of things. Liberals piss regular people off with their bile and hate and of course they're are going to be insulted.
The answer to Word's question: Are conservative bloggers as hateful as liberal bloggers? The answer is obviously no. Liberals hate and conservatives react to the hatefulness of liberals by insulting them. That's the way it happens.
Gayle was right to kick you off her blog. You are one of those that annoy people with incessent arguments that have little or nothing to do with the original issue at hand. If you want to be insulted as you obviously do, go to the daily kos or huffypo blog and type these words in " George Bush deserves a lot of credit because the surge is working" don't bother reporting the results we already know what they wil be.
"You are one of those that annoy people with incessent arguments that have little or nothing to do with the original issue at hand."
??
The discussion at hand is whether liberals are more respectful on blogs than are conservatives. The presumption by everyone else here is that's an obvious No. Which is fine.
I will just again point out that I have not been trying to be annoying and I certainly have only been respectful. That I ask a question and offer an opinion should not be cause for considering me "annoying," and I've been dealing with the original issue at hand, so your charges bear no weight on reality.
Might someone here acknowledge that, if someone were visiting here with no pre-formed opinion, that they would have to say that the so-called "conservatives" have been rude or disrespectful at least four or five times and the so-called "liberal" has been only respectful and polite? And, further, that this hurts your very premise that liberals are by far more disrespectful?
I will repeat that this little dialog reflects the reality at the places I traverse in the blogosphere. I'm certain that there are rude liberals out there, although no one has yet to offer the first example of actual rudeness. I'm sure there are some who call themselves liberal who might even make death threats (although, by so doing, they have disavowed themselves from a central tenet of liberalism and given lie to the suggestion that they are liberal).
But fair-minded folk would have to say that it cuts both ways and it depends a lot upon where you go as to whether you see more liberal rudeness or conservative rudeness. If one were to go to Wordsmith's place over the last few days, they'd see only conservative rudeness.
Fair enough?
Everytime I put off answering and responding to comments here, it gets longer and longer. I'm about to leave for work, but just a quick word:
Dan,
I've always considered you a gentleman in your avoidance of ad hominems and in your civility toward those who you vehemently disagree with. I think that's to your credit.
I believe you and the circle of blogfriends you keep, on both sides of the fence, engage in civil, respectful discourse. In my experience, that's not the norm.
I admit I could be wrong on this. But the kind of vitriol and hatred that Mike is referring to, goes beyond just insults (without clicking on your link, I'm guessing the topic at hand probably had to do with global warming since an SUV was mentioned...and to echo this commenter: "I find that Conservatives are more witty rather than hateful." I seriously doubt Mike would try and run you over, and he was going for the humorous effect). What Mike refers to are the kind of comments that he and I recently disagreed over: At Conservatism with a Heart, where he, skye, and I are blogsitting while Dee is on vacation, the first 3 comments in skye's first post were from liberal detractors, with the first 2 being particularly obscenity-laced. The 2nd anon, in particular, called himself "Little Miss Cuntybox", as a slam on Dee's old title, "Little Miss Chatterbox". I believe those comments should be left standing, as they speak for themselves. Mike disagreed, and felt they were pornographic, and should be removed (which they were, and which decision I respect, since it's not my blog, and it's what Dee would have wanted, anyway).
I'm certain that there are rude liberals out there, although no one has yet to offer the first example of actual rudeness.
I really don't know what to say to this. It's not that hard to find, dan. Really it isn't.
But anyway, all we have are anecdotal evidence. I just think that when it comes to obscenity and the use of foul language, liberals are more likely to engage in that. I see it on t-shirts and bumperstickers. When you are out in public, in family atmosphere where children are around, why on earth would you sport something that employs cuss words, and something that attempts to sidestep public outcry to "get away with saying it", by using such obvious and unimaginative obscenity as "Buck Fush"?
At last, what seems to me to be a reasonable answer with no disrespectful attacks!
And, if you're talking simply about obscenities/curse words, I'd gladly accept that it's likely that liberals engage in that sort of language moreso than conservatives (not necessarily in my circles, though).
But you didn't ask about obscenities, you asked about respectful behavior. Mike's (and others) comments are consistently disrespectful towards those they disagree with. I'd much rather have someone utter an obscenity at me than to twist my words and views, which is the sort of disrespectful behavior some conservatives engage in and what I find disrespectful.
So, if we want to change the question: Are liberal bloggers more likely than conservative bloggers to use curse words? I'd probably have made no comment because that may indeed be a fair point.
If, on the other hand, we're going to talk about disrespectful behavior, I'll stand by my assertion that it occurs everywhere and, in my experience (as evidenced here), more often amongst conservative bloggers.
Thanks WS for your decency.
LOL! Looks like I'm getting a lot more blog time than I did air time on O'Reilly. Thanks to you who congratulated me here. I appreciate it. I hope all here have a great day, and that includes Dan. :)
"I'd much rather have someone utter an obscenity at me than to twist my words and views"
After all, if someone utters a curse word at me (You booger!), they've merely released steam in a rather childish way. If, on the other hand, someone twists my words and views (You're a god-hating, terrorist-loving socialist) they have changed what I've said and made discussion more difficult.
I can communicate with someone who curses at me. But with someone who insists on twisting (either purposefully or accidentally in their own mind), communcation becomes very difficult.
======
profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
~ Mark Twain
Thank you, Miss Gayle. And congratulations on getting your air time.
Thank you, Dan. However, this comment thread is far more interesting than my e-mail was.
Frankly, I think that Trabue thrives on attention. Perhaps I should no better than to feed his weanie ego.
And maybe I should have saved the comments from Conservatism with Heart which referred to c#$ks#$&ing and posting of pornographic links so Dan would know the difference between incivility and hate speech.
In my view, Dan's destructive and dangerous pacifism in the face of real, not imagined, evil voids any call for my civility.
And I could of course repost all the comments from Kos Kooks wishing Tony Snow and Dick Cheney were dead.
And while I am at it, I could dig up the racist cartoons showing Condi Rice as Aunt Jemima and Clarence Thomas as a lawn jockey.'
But then, I'm sure loons like Trabue would simply dismiss that clear evidence and continue to use their perverted sense of moral equivalence to justify it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
My last comment was from yesterday when in the middle of the discussion we had a tornado knock out power and internet connections. Suffice it to say I believe the liberals and George Bush haters are far worse than anything I seen in the 35 years I have been involved in politics and political discussion.
"And I could of course repost all the comments from Kos Kooks wishing Tony Snow and Dick Cheney were dead."
You could, but you didn't. So, thus far, I've yet to see the first bit of evidence in support of the claim that liberals are more disrespectful than conservatives, and yet I've seen about five-six bits of evidence to the contrary.
But, if we're going to dismiss Mike's death threats as friendly and funny jokes, why are we accepting as reality these supposed death wishes of supposed liberals?
Is inconsistency part of being respectful (it's disrespectful when THEY do it, but it's cute when WE do it)?
Gayle said...Your tendency to beat a dead horse beyond the point of death totally annoyed me
I see what you mean Gayle. Dan makes no sense either. We're still talking about Wordsmith's question "are conservative bloggers as hatefulas liberal bloggers?" and the answer is obviously "no". or Maybe this works better for Dan, "No, obviously"
Dan, you truly make me wish that I had saved every horrible comment I have ever received. The thing is, I delete those comments and don't allow them on my blog. Some of the things I've been called I will not print because they are so foul. Here are some of the nicer ones: "Stupid old hag." "Draino Brain." (That one's rather funny.) "Sh*t for brains" "Bitch." I had one idiot wish that I would die a horrible and painful death!
Those are the nicer ones. I got to know the names of the worst and most abusive people and immediately delete them when I see their names. I've had the experience of pornography being linked to on my blog. There is no way I - or any of my blogging friends of which there are many - would even think of typing these things in the comment section of anyone's blog. Bloviating Zeppelin sometimes uses crude language just like he said, but it's nothing compaired to what I've seen, and I don't even visit liberal blogs, not any more. I find the horrible verbage hurts my brain. I'm just telling you what I've seen posted on my blog. Even with comment moderation turned on I still get that sort of hateful commentary and so do most of the people who have commented here.
There are liberals who troll the internet with the objective of being so foul conservatives are forced to turn on comment moderation. Okay, so I did it. I won't subject my readers to that sort of thing.
Yes, we conservatives get tired of it and we get angry. Some conservatives call liberals "libtards." Some of us post unflattering pictures of liberal politicians. BZ uses "Demorats" a lot. But all in all it's mild by comparison. Unlike many liberals, we don't wish for anyone to die or be killed. The difference between the incivility of many liberals and conservatives is apples and oranges.
I noticed the vile (vile doesn't begin to describe it actually) screed coming out of liberal people's keyboards while I was still in Iraq a year ago. It is amazing how empowering insanely illogical rage must make people feel. (Conservatives do it to, but at least others of us have the decency to call them on it, so it doesn't happen nearly as often.)
This is perhaps the reason that lefty blogging is bigger than righty blogging--because they offer a much bigger vent-hole for the mindless.
Bill O'Reilly is no paragon of courtesy and grace, but he is correct when he says that left-wing bloggers are much worse. They are the epitome of electronic filth.
The Daily Kuss adds very little to the debate other than a successive stream of raw sewage.
Trabue the weanie said " thus far, I've yet to see the first bit of evidence in support of the claim that liberals are more disrespectful than conservatives"
Frankly, I wonder how anyone could be so willfully ignorant on this topic?
Too bad I deleted the comment left at my video from Reagan's funeral by the hatemonger who suggested Reagan was rotting in hell with a poker of red hot iron up his ass. That would have been good for a start.
But this from the announcement of Tony Snow's cancer should illustrate things:
The Huffington Post
Tony Snow To Undergo Surgery For Abdomen Growth
March 23, 2007
"Unfortunately, as we've seen the last couple of days, cancer knows no political party."
"Tony may be a BushCo whore"
"Tony Snow to Undergo Burn Treatments For Repeated Pantaloon Incineration"
"Hopefully he can use this surgery to leave his WH post and successfully rescue any career he has left in legitimate journalism. "
"Funny, I was thinking Snow didn't look that well - I assumed it was just the pressure of working for a bunch of assholes."
"Everyone keep your comments nice and polite. We wouldn't want Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh to express outrage for us huffposters saying something mean about Tony. Just kidding....Tony Snow is giving birth to Dick Cheney's alien-baby as we speak!"
"Tony Snow is a piece of shit, for sure. His punishment should be the shame that is justifiably heaped on a spokesman for the most venal and vicious administration in memory"
You might also have heard how hate-filled Democrats spewed their bile all over one of their favorite nesting sites, the Huffington Post, wishing that Cheney had been killed.
Comments like "Jesus Christ and General Jackson too, can't the Taliban do anything right? They must know we would be so gratefull (sic) to them for such a remarkable achievement" were among the milder remarks.
The comment: "You can never find a competent suicide bomber when you need one" might not be so funny to the families of September 11th victims, or those in Israel living with the wounds of attacks.
The entire comment thread has been saved in case anyone disputes the volume and vile nature of the comments:
http://hotair.cachefly.net/video/2007-02/HuffPoCheneyTalibanThread.pdf
I could go on and on and on. The left has been reduced to an unrelenting sewer of sheer hate.
And the Trabues of this world defend it with their silence and willful ignorance.
P.S. Where'd I make a "death threat" against Trabue?
If anyone wants to know why I take such a strong tone towards that idiot it is because he is an enabler of evil and in my eyes, just as guilty as the Islamists who his pacifism would defend.
"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.'"-- George Orwell
There is nothing intellectual about arrogance.
His rebuttal was filled with deflections and accusations without merit.
Of course there are outlier liberal blogs, they are the minority in this debate. The examples I listed are the mainstream in liberal argumentative style. Dan can claim ignorance all he wants, it works well within a liberal argument.
How many times do liberals ask the question of "Why are we in Iraq?" No matter how much evidence, rational thought and logical rendering is layed at their feet, they willfully reject and ignore the data.
Dan is a good example of obscuring the point. Intellectual laziness? Perhaps. Willfull ignorance? Precisely.
Skye, Dan Trabue's last comment smells of intellectual arrogance.
Can dan provide an example of this sort of behavior amongst so-called conservatives?
-------------------------------
But let's assume you find a series of quotes that are, indeed, hateful. I'm sure they're out there. Just as there are hateful conservative blogs out there.
Still waiting for you do do the same, Dan.
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So, perhaps you could lift a quote (with some context) so I could know what you're speaking of.
Folks,
You might want to read the following essays when encoutering the 'dan trabues' of the blogosphere.
Liberal "Rules" for arguing.
More Liberal "Rules" for aguing.
Skye, thanks for posting the links. Both links were very informative. The next time I encounter a "liberal" who wishes to argue, I shall put the links' lessons to use.
"Can dan provide an example of this sort of behavior [hateful] amongst so-called conservatives?"
Just look at the posts here directed towards me, sister. Lord have mercy.
So no comment from the weanie Trabue about the examples of hate speech provided at his request.
I can't say I am surprised!
And still no illumination about these "death threats" either.
No surprise there either.
But at least we can now say his objections has been answered and his silence speaks volumes.
And I'm sure readers will forgive me if I repeat the Orwell quote:
"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.'"-- George Orwell
"And still no illumination about these "death threats" either."
Mike, I provided your death threat towards me and the link to its source. It's at the Friday 3:50am quote. And I told you all you had to do is look at your own hateful, unjustified strawman attacks towards me right at this very blog if you want to see examples of hateful, disrespectful behavior on the part of so-called conservatives.
I say "so-called" because I don't think real conservatives would be as disrespectful or ignorant as you have shown yourself to be. And "ignorant" here is not an example of me name-calling but rather me pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about. It could be that you're just intentionally belligerent instead of ignorant, of course, or perhaps just an out-and-out liar who hopes to influence people by speaking slanderous comments towards those who disagree with him. I couldn't say for sure.
Whatever, it's not gentlemanly behavior, just childish ranting and is only a deterrent to dialog that our divided world needs. So, unless you have something useful or intelligent to say, I'm through talking to you, brother.
Trabue: You're a weanie and a fascist enabler. Sorry you don't like it when I tell it like it is, but you're also a WHINING weanie and fascist enabler.
And you have clearly warped the English language beyond any reasonable set of norms to serve your purposes. To call ME "ignorant" after you demonstrated such a complete lack of comprehension of the difference between me calling you a WEANIE and the Huffington Post crowd wishing Tony Snow, Dick Cheney Dead is clear enough proof to anyone who does not suffer your disease.
And as for this "death threat." When I issue a FATWA you'll know about it pal. It's just like you blind fools to focus on irrational fears like that than the very real fear of terrorists who REALLY DO WANT TO KILL YOU!
Wordsmith can tell me to shut up if he wants to, but I refuse to treat you, or the people like you, with anything but the contempt and scorn you deserve.
You place all of us at greater risk and you weaken the resolve this nation has to defeat the evil monsters that REALLY would turn our world into a living hell.
And if you don't like my Orwell quote, here's another which fits you perfectly:
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Thank GOD this nation created so many fine men and women like the patriot and Founding Father above. If people like you were in charge we'd still be British. Either that or speaking German or Russian by now.
"I refuse to treat you, or the people like you, with anything but the contempt and scorn you deserve."
In other words, disrespectfully. Hatefully. Ungentlemanly.
Sure, that's fine. I don't particularly care what you think. That's your call.
The question was raised and I answered it based on my experience with individuals such as you and you have backed me up. You have my gratitude.
Peace.
And, as a parting gift, here are some quotes I like:
Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. ... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
~James Madison
There is only one solution for our generation: It is the return to a life based on Christ's Sermon on the Mount.
~General Dwight Eisenhower
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
~Jesus
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
~The Apostle Paul
I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute
you.
~Jesus
The only "peace" fools like you offer is the peace of the grave. And if you think that's a Christian perpsective, do me a favor and covert to Islam now.
You consistently fail to recognize the very real hate speech directed at the right and you even go so far as to justify it because I called you a "weanie."
Your actions have been the enabling that motivates monsters like the guy who shot one of our troops here in the United States on the 4th of July:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjUyNzcyOWE0NWE4YmMxY2UxNzJkZDJkZjA0MTdkM2Q=
You won't find anything that compares with that on the right.
More examples:
-- By Michelle Malkin • July 25, 2007 10:43 PM Moonbat of the day:
An aircraft mechanic sent e-mails to the FBI claiming he had planted explosives at Utah’s Hill Air Force Base and planned to take six hostages in Idaho, authorities said Wednesday.
--Nobel Peace Prize winner Betty Williams came from Ireland to Texas to declare that President Bush should be impeached. “Right now, I could kill George Bush,” she said at the Adam’s Mark Hotel and Conference Center in Dallas.
--protestors carrying poster showing Bush beheaded:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/bushbeheaded.jpg
--Despicable Memorial Day desecration in Orcas Island, Wash.:
Vandals burned dozens of small American flags that decorated veterans’ graves for Memorial Day and replaced many of them with hand-drawn swastikas,
--Pierce County Sheriff's Department and local Tacoma area law enforcement officers are looking several individuals who "allegedly" attacked a National Guardsmen in uniform as he was walking into a convenience store. Sytman and Boze said that a sport utility vehicle pulled up alongside him and someone asked if he was in the military and if he had been in any action.
Apparently the Guardsman indicated that he had. The individuals exited their vehicle brandishing a weapon and proceeded to beat the guardsman.
As they left the scene, the attackers called the guardsman "a baby killer."
--Maps to the homes of Michelle Malkin, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney's summer home and even what the idiot thought was Mike's America's house have been posted online with phone numbers and addresses.
I could go on and on and on all day. But it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you.
You're an enabler for evil. And you can deceive yourself, but you're not fooling me.
Finally, another quote:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
You're a parasite on the freedom fought for and won by others.
John Stuart Mill
And you wear your mother's underwear, Mike sweetie.
You fascist genocide enabler. (If you want to engage in silly name-calling, I'll play that game if you want to, you war crime supporter you. You terrorist-symp simpleton. Is that how the game is played?)
But I get it now. When you say, "I'll run you down if I see you on a bike in front of my SUV" it's all good fun and not to be taken seriously. When you call me a socialist and a weinie, it's all for a big joke - or because you don't like me, and that's okay.
But when others on the so-called Left say, "Right now, I could kill George Bush," it's to be taken seriously, or if they suggest you have sex with your aunties and cousins, it's mean-spirited and ungentlemanly.
In other words, you're a thin-skinned hypocrite. YOU of all people, Mike, have no room to whine about others being disrespectful. That's your bread and butter, buddy.
And calling you a "hypocrite" is not disrespectful name-calling (even though you've already established that name-calling is acceptable behavior - or is that only if you're on the Right?) in your case, since you've proven multiple times here in this series of comments that you are exactly that.
Thanks for letting me visit, Wordsmith. I'll go back to lurking now. I've seen enough evidence here to see clearly that disrespect goes both ways and there may well be plenty of disrespect from liberals at the sites you go to, I have to go no further than here to see that the opposite is true, as well.
Peace.
That is because peacenik's are weenies! Everyone knows that Mike! LOL
Sheesh you would think they would get a clue by now!
Noting but losers and it is too damn bad they get to live here... oh but wait I think they work for the AQ crowed. Heh talk about your cheap labor! The treason fools!!!
I wear both! So don't even try me asshole!
OH Dan for heaven sake take that jock strap off!
You don't need it for that little thing!
Just as Skye predicted according to the Liberal Rules for Arguments, the weanie Trabue has moved the goal posts from any moral eqivalence on hate speech by right bloggers to "disrespect."
Sorry Danny Boy, but I have no respect for people whose low leve of intellectual integrity is so transparent.
Oh for heavens sake! Dan knows this is a conservative blog he just wanted to come here and snivel just like they all do!
So just hand them the toilet paper to wipe their ass as they leave.
Funny I don’t have any reason to go to their blog. Nothing is worth repeating that they say from their end. No solutions at all just the same o dribble of diarrhea.
Has he left yet? Good. Can't you just imagine Trabue climbing into his
rusted out beetle, beads clanging around his neck. He stops to brush
back his shoulder length greasy hair
and light up a toke. Peace. Make love, not war. How pitiful.
Here's a nasty lib quote for you - and you can google it, because Kos erased it after people were horrified. You'll have to find it somewhere else.
How about a picture of American's burned bodies swinging from a bridge in Fallujah and the quote underneath, "F*** THEM"
Because Kos put that on his front page. How about that, huh? How's that for disgusting,vile, revolting behavior? Huh? Can you find ANYTHING on the right that horrendous? ANYTHING?
That happened while my hubby was in Iraq. He knew one of them professionally.
I could link to many others, but after that revolting screed from the pre-eminent liberal blogger - I think all else is icing.
Here's what Kos said:
"I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them."
And the original post was removed and I can't find a cached copy.
But when it comes to hate, it starts at the top in the Democrat Party.
Most folks remember Howard Dean saying that he "hates Republicans and everything they stand for."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-02-dean-republicans_x.htm
And that translates into the "Revenge of the Peace Fascists."
In that post I documented:
--Gunshots fired into GOP Headquarters in two states.
--Organized Union gangs invading, and in some cases vandalizing GOP HQ's in several states.
--Multiple reports of burglarized GOP offices and thefts.
--Nazi swastikas burned into lawns, spray painted on private property and campaign signs. Cars with Bush stickers have windows smashed.
But after attacking our troops, which I posted above, the next worst is what lefty union thugs did in this photo to a young girl sitting on top of her father's shoulders holding a Bush Cheney sign:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/88/233018598_3e5111d0e5_o.jpg
and
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/92/233018597_9501a8bd06_o.jpg
There is simply no comparable example of right wing hate or violence. I know it, you know it and Trabue the weanie knows it.
Oh, and also google "I Hate Republicans"
Some very angry liberal Democrat actually wrote a song with that title! And then set it to pictures of Nazis. Now, I generally laugh at it. But it wasn't done to make me laugh.
Oh, and just to clarify - I'm a registered Democrat. In California, no less. The behavior of the liberal Democrats literally drove me (and I'm a legacy brat, my family "business" is politics) from voting for that party.
Ask yourself WHY I would be so revolted and disgusted that I would run and cast the first vote since I registered at age 18 and 9 hours for a Republic when I was 30 years old. What would drive someone to do that? Fear? Please - I've delivered 11 pound babies at home with no medication. I don't shy away from doing what is hard. I shy away from those who fall into what Hannah Arendt called "the banality of evil."
In my opinion, no. Have you heard Cindy Sheehan speak?
Lord Whorfin
If you will reread the comments, it is apparent that Dan came here to start a fight and when he got tiresome, he starts accusing. He never did sight any instances but one against Mike, but he did what he came for.
mom2: Looks to me like Dan came to discuss the issue, just like everyone else. (He just came at it from a different angle than most here...) I noticed no sign saying it was unlawful or inappropriate to disagree with the "prevailing wisdom."
Maybe he's right & maybe he's wrong, but I don't see where it was a hostile act to post his position, either way... Mom2's observation seems off base, a little...
I'm with Wordsmith's initial observation... What person ot group one sees as offensive tends to be affected by ones own beliefs, both in terms of general politics (the more "like me" a person is, the less offensive we tend to think they are), and in terms of specific offensive acts... (I'm less offended by foul language than a racial/ethnic/religious slur.)
I can't say who's actually worse, but I agree that both sides have some very offensive individual members--and some very respectful ones.
repsac3, why did Dan not give any instances to support his claims. He likes to talk in generalities.
Then he will accuse everyone of misunderstanding him or misquoting him, not able to understand his intentions and bearing false witness against him. He has a pattern.
Repsac said "I can't say who's actually worse."
So... Hoping someone dies of cancer, rots in hell with a red hot poker up their butt or gets assasinated by the Taliban is the same as calling someone a "weanie?"
Thank you Repsac. What a perfect example you provide of perverted moral equivalence.
mom2: why did Dan not give any instances to support his claims.
I don't know. His first post was asking for those who take the opposite position from him--& who similarly made claims in need of support--to provide their instances in support of what they said.
He likes to talk in generalities.
Then he will accuse everyone of misunderstanding him or misquoting him, not able to understand his intentions and bearing false witness against him. He has a pattern.
Perhaps when I read more of his comments, I'll see that pattern. But I didn't see it here...
M'erica:So... Hoping someone dies of cancer, rots in hell with a red hot poker up their butt or gets assasinated by the Taliban is the same as calling someone a "weanie?
In that example, the red hot poker et al. is much worse. But that doesn't mean the weinie remark isn't also rude.
Do I need to do a similarly slanted matchup going the other way, or might you accept that there are also really rude comments made by certain folks on the right, & similarly less rude ones made from the left?
What a perfect example you provide of perverted moral equivalence.
That'd be a good point, had I made the argument you did, rather than the one I did... (Straw army, stand firm.) Of course it's easy to find really nasty statements from one side, and really wimpy statements from the other, & put them head to head as though that proves anything. But I didn't do that... The perverse moral equivalence came from your own keyboard, not mine. Another man of straw who'll never reach Oz & get that brain.
"rude?"
We're not talking about rudeness here.
Get a clue Repsac.
Was it "rude" when an anti-war leftie shot one of our soldiers home from Iraq on the 4th of July?
Was it "rude" when a gang in Seattle beat up one of National Guardsmen in uniform?
Was it "rude" when Union thugs ripped the Bush Cheney sign from a young girl as she sat on her father's shoulders?
"Rude" breaking car windows of vehicles bearing Bush bumper stickers?
"Rude" burning American flags decorating the graves of war dead and putting Swastikas in their place?
You always seem to find a way to excuse truly monstrous behavior with your twisted moral equivalence.
In doing so, you enable REAL hatemongers.
And that's as bad, or worse, than being a pacifist twit.
This set of comments deteriorated, didn't it? I'm a liberal, socialist pig and I'm from the north. Usually I'm criticized as being rude because I'm from the north, not because I'm liberal, but maybe it goes hand in hand, huh? You know what I think is rude? When I drive up to McDonalds and the kid at the window calls me "honey." Now that is conservative rudeness. The little twit.
Mike, making a list of more bad acts by "the left" does nothing to win your point... Really, it doesn't.
The fact is, hateful, rude, disgusting, bad, disrespectful, (add your word here) behavior happens on all sides. I can put up a hateful act by cons for every one you put up by libs. Same with simple rudeness. Whatever standard you choose, there are folks on your side & on mine that do it.
It's pointless to argue what side's worse, when we could all be condemning the individual bad acts & the individual bad actors, instead...
Of course, that doesn't score the political points, does it?
Repsac: The hallmark of an intelligent, sentient being is the ability to compare and contrast and make conclusions and judgements on the basis of one's observations.
You're seeming inability to comprehend the difference between politically motivated violence and calling someone a "weanie" undermines your intellectual integrity.
Think a little harder and try again.
Your seeming inability to comprehend the difference between politically motivated violence and calling someone a "weanie" undermines your intellectual integrity.
And your seeming inability to understand that I am making no such comparison in the first place undermines yours, Mike. The apples and oranges comparisons were--& remain--yours, not mine.
And your seeming inability to understand that I am making no such comparison in the first place undermines yours, Mike. The apples and oranges comparisons were--& remain--yours, not mine.>
repsac3, so your intent was to just throw a punch at conservatives, huh?
repsac3, so your intent was to just throw a punch at conservatives, huh?
A punch? Not at all... My intent was to express my opinion on the topic, just as I'm sure it was your intent to do the same... Making it personal, rather than about the topic, helps no one...
repsac3, you make yourself clearer all the time. It is ok for liberals to say whatever they want to, but conservatives no.
Mom2: You got it in one try! Gold Star!
Repsac can always be counted to provide cover for anything the libs come up with.
It's usually some variation of "both sides do it." And of course I've pointed out with countless examples here and in other threads on other topics how absurd that is.
As I've tried to explain to Repsac countless times, all he is doing is seeing to it that the miscreant hatemongers on the left are never held to account for anything.
He'd never countenance that the same standards he daily demands of conservatives be applied to libs.
Whether it's ethics, law or political speech there will never be any meaningful reform as long as the left gets a free pass.
Mom2: It is ok for liberals to say whatever they want to, but conservatives no.
I'm sorry... Where did I ay any such thing?
M'erica: After leaving aside all the ad hom & bluster, we're left with He'd never countenance that the same standards he daily demands of conservatives be applied to libs.
Please don't say it. Show it. Where have I ever done any such thing?
Making up straw men is fine, if that's your penchant, but it shouldn't be confused with actually adressing the issue.
I've pretty clearly said individuals who are hateful, rude, or anything else should be held to account, no matter what party they're in or ideology they espouse. I don't know how I can be more clear, or understand how either of you can misunderstand the words I write.
And yet, you do...
Oh please!
Repie, you simply ignore every hatefilled bit of lunacy the bile spewers at my blog post in comments every day.
You reserve exclusively, your critical eye for anything said by a conservative.
Live in that fantasy world of yours and claim some superior even handedness if you want.
But it's LAUGHABLE.
Your inability to call a spade a spade if it's a lib make you nothing more than an enabler for the leftie hatemongers.
Repie, you simply ignore every hatefilled bit of lunacy the bile spewers at my blog post in comments every day.
You reserve exclusively, your critical eye for anything said by a conservative.
I guess finding those examples was too difficult...
So now, it isn't really that I "provide cover for anything the libs come up with," but that I don't defend the honor of Cons at a conservative blog when they are under attack by mean old liberals...
Nice goalpost shift, Mike...
Your inability to call a spade a spade if it's a lib make you nothing more than an enabler for the leftie hatemongers.
I might say the same about you & rightie hatemongers... But I also recognise who and what you are, and know better than to ask or expect you to betray your chosen party or ideology with anything approaching intellectual honesty.
I might say the same about you & rightie hatemongers... But I also recognise who and what you are, and know better than to ask or expect you to betray your chosen party or ideology with anything approaching intellectual honesty>
Oh thank you! Honey Bunch. Is that some of your love or do you get a little hacked and rude sometimes also?
"I guess finding those examples was too difficult..."
Oh good grief! What planet are you living on?
It was like pulling teeth to get you to condemn an avowed Jew hating admirer of David Duke.
Would you really like me to reprint all those comment threads here? I'm sorry, but it would take hours.
You're either so deep in denial or delusion that you can't see straight.
Mom2:Oh thank you! Honey Bunch. Is that some of your love or do you get a little hacked and rude sometimes also?
First off, it wasn't written to you at all, so love or not, I fail to see why it so concerns you...
Second, love or not, it is borne of several months of history between me & Mike, of which you are seemingly unaware. (If you were, it'd be far less likely that you'd bother getting involved. This silliness goes on often between us...)
Third, I never claimed to love everyone, or to never be rude, ever. In fact, I've said exactly the opposite, so I'm not sure what you think you're proving... People can be rude. Some are even hateful & mean. It isn't determined by political party, though...
t was like pulling teeth to get you to condemn an avowed Jew hating admirer of David Duke.
How many times do we have to go through this?
Mike's - KKKen Comment: "My remarkable talent was in ignoring him completely, actually. And later, when you challenged me to denounce him, I refused on the grounds that I wasn't going to get pushed into badmouthing anyone--no matter how repulsive--for your amusement. Even if he deserved my condemnation, I believe that your requiring it to prove some kinda point--either about him if I did it, or about me if I did not--is the mark of a bully."
I fail to understand how that is in any way unclear to you but, as this is the third time I've had to repeat it, it obviously is beyond your understanding.
Would you really like me to reprint all those comment threads here? I'm sorry, but it would take hours.
Who said anything about "all" of anything? I asked for a specific example (1 would be nice, to start) of my "not countenancing that the same standards I daily demand of conservatives be applied to libs."
If I do this as often as you claim, and seeing as how you seem to have so much material to work with that reposting it all would take hours, I'd think it wouldn't take but a moment or two to find and post one or two examples, with links back to the original discussions, for context.
Or you can just keep tossing out baseless acusations, unencumbered by proof of any kind...
You just keep lying to yourself Repsac.
You're not fooling anyone else.
Making this about me--rather than providing the evidence I requested--only proves the point about there being no partisan lock on rudeness or ridiculousness still further.
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